[Jacquie] Allan, good morning and
welcome to meet you.

[Allan] Wonderful to meet you.

[Jacquie] So this week, as I mentioned,
you've been in Emerald giving

workshops on family business.

That sort of generational
knowledge being passed along.

Trying to facilitate, if there are
some disagreements, in how the

businesses are run.

[Allan] Or keeping away from them.

[Jacquie] Keeping away from them.

That's right.

You'll be doing the same
in Rockhampton next week.

[Allan] That's correct.

[Jacquie] So how do you tackle this?

[Allan] How do I tackle it?

Firstly, I have an amazing
belief that everybody intrinsically

wants to do well and get on.

And I never lose sight of that.

And I'm always searching
and looking for it.

And over the years, I've studied
what are the micro behaviours that

allow us to have rapport,
credibility and get agreement.

And I think we're so much
better at debate and argument

then we are.

[Jacquie]  Where does it go wrong then, Allan?

[Allan] If I can be the behavioural
scientist for a minute, it goes wrong

with about 20 tiny little behaviours
that we do that muck it up.

And the first one
is, I'm going to jump

in and interrupt you mid-sentence.

And you're then going to feel unheard.

Now, I only have to do that four
or five times in a meeting. And there's

family of eight of us.

And all of a sudden you become quiet.

[Jacquie] And seize.

[Allan] If that happens at the next family
meeting, you turn up at the third one

and you don't talk at all.

[Jacquie] And those lines of communication are going.

[Allan] And it was never ever mentioned.

But in between those meetings, I

never spoke to the
person who did it.

So interrupting.

Now, if we just interrupt it would
be okay, but we interrupt with

'Yeah, but'.

Now, 'yeah, but' quietly
says, I'm invalidating what you're

saying, diminishing the
value of what you're saying.

[Jacquie] Okay.

[Allan] And then you say
something, I go, no, no, no.

Now, funny thing is, it's always
no, no, no. It's always three.

And the hand gesture goes up.

Like,

the policeman with stop signal.

And so we do that.

We forget to acknowledge
what somebody says.

So if we would see it, if we didn't,

I think if we did nothing else .

But every time you
speak, I make some

comment or reference
to what you said.

So that you got that
I heard it and it went in.

And then I added what I wanted to say.

If we could do that
one behavior change.

Now, I put it to you, to be
provocative, given that you've had the

prime minister in this morning.

And I do this with
total respect to it.

And you've never seen that happen
in question time in parliament, ever.

But the 'yeah, but',
they take it further,

they do ridiculed denigration.

Yell over the top of each other.

And then we wonder why we've got

a problem with bullying in school .

Kids have seen that
and think it's okay.

[Jacquie] The discussions that you've had over

the last couple of
days in, in Emerald.

The businesses or family businesses.

And I'm imagining a
lot of them are farming.

[Allan] They were, they were
all farming families.

And half of them
had off farm businesses

as well as on farm businesses.

Yeah.

[Jacquie] Had they, had they realized and
recognised in themselves, some of

what you were saying when
you explained some of this?

[Allan] About half of them have either
worked with the RCS organisation,

the Resource Consulting Group.

And they do a lot of good work
around sustainable businesses for

farmers, rural.

And, so some of them
had worked with them.

Some of them had worked
with me with that group before.

And a couple had worked with
some of the school work that I'd been

doing in the area.

So about half of them
had been there before.

And the other half were
completely, completely new.

And so, again, in that regard I've

got to manage it quite differently.

So I break them into groups a lot.

And sometimes, I start them off,
I break them up out of the family

groups first.

I get them to practice the
skills with other people.

And then we bring them together
in the latter part to practice the

skills with the family members.

[Jacquie] Because it has been something
that we've discussed a lot through

the years, Allan, is that
idea of succession planning.

And just how almost painful it can

be for the older
generation to let go.

[Allan] It's a, it's a big one.

The simple answer, Jacquie, to that
is if we started early it wouldn't

be as difficult.

But we often leave it
right until it's too late.

And we often leave it until it's
about asset distribution or wills.

And at that point it's sensitive
stuff, if you haven't done some

work with it before.

And you're opening comments
about exchanging knowledge and skill

from one generation to the other.

And in both directions. Can I get
out of Dad, the thousand things

that he knows how to do.

And the things he reads about,
the patterns of the environment and

the weather and how the herd behaves.

How do we get that out of him?

And how does he open his eyes
and be excited by the fact that I

bring these ideas and new

technology that's
unfamiliar with him.

So it's really about how do we
honour each other and be grateful for

the skills we both bring, rather
than protecting the ones or

fighting for the ones I bring.

[Jacquie] Yeah and appreciating that we
each have something to add to that

conversation.

[Allan] As the people who have
grown up with computer technology,

the more they have computer
technology, the less they see with

their eyes and ears.

So the reading of the environment,
they're going to need to go, as

you did to a computer to get the data.

[Jacquie] Yes.

[Allan] Whereas, I remember, and I had a
farm until a year or two years ago.

There was an old guy
and he must have been 80.

And somebody would go, oh, do
you think it's going to rain?

And he'd go, 'No, the ants were
working to slow, walking to slow this morning.'

Most of us would never see the ants.

Let alone, notice that one day
they worked faster and slower.

Now gathering data from a computer

means that that
visual acuity will fade.

Unless we honour that Dad's got
these amazing skills that's just been

turning up and half the time
Dad doesn't know what they are.

So it does require
this ongoing process.

And I always say to people, just
every time your with somebody, ask them what and the

how question?

What did you just do?

How did you go about doing that?

How did you know that?

Oh, what did you see that told you that?

So if we do what and how, what and how

two times.

Every time we're with somebody else.

It'll be amazing.

[Jacquie] 16th past nine on ABC Capricornia.

[Jacquie] Communicator, Allan Parker is
with you this morning and he's been

delivering some
generation to generation

workshops in Emerald this week.

Next week, he's doing exactly
the same thing in Rockhampton.

It strikes me, Allan,
from listening to you, that

there must be an element
of frustration in debate.

Not just in politics, but in any
kind of area at the moment that

there seems to be argument going
out one way, but no reciprocation

happening a lot.

In society just generally.

Why do you think this is happening?

[Allan] Let me be slightly academic
through just two sentences. We don't

know the difference between
dialogue, discussion and debate.

Debate is a competition and it's
an argument and it's me winning

and it's me putting you down
and diminishing your point of view.

So that's I win.

That's what a debate is.

A discussion is where
we exchange ideas.

Now, there's not much
inquiry in discussion.

There's virtually no questioning
in debate, unless it's a leading

question to diminish it.

Dialogue is about exploration.

Dialogue is about
drilling in to understand.

So you say something, and in
fact I did an exercise with the group

the other day I said I just
finished a training program,

and went up stairs.

And I said to them what what
picture did you just make in your mind?

And half of them had me in the

clothes that I was
in, in front of them.

And half of them had
me in a suit in Sydney.

Because I'm a bloke from the city.

And I said no. I was in a pair of
red running shorts. I was training.

So they had me training people.

But the story I was about to
tell them, I was going for a training run.

And if we don't stop every now
and again abd go, "what sort of training?"

How we addressed
our assumptions, our

hallucinations, our pre-judgements.

Oh, he's a city guy he'll be in a suit?

They permeate and then we get
into debate on assumption, opinion

and judgment and pre-mature

extrapolated conclusions.
And then we're

in trouble.

[Jacquie] This is such a huge topic and
we've just dealt with it very, very

briefly. But you are having
conversations with lots of different

groups in Queensland.

[Allan] Yes.

[Jacquie] With schools, with Queensland
teachers, union as well.

What's your advice for us to
develop healthy conversations with

anyone that we come across?

And especially those people that

we may disagree
with their viewpoint?

[Allan] Well, first is, be well
prepared and well informed.

Second is, find the
place that's appropriate.

Third, and I think the vital point
is, a breathe. As you'll notice, I

do each time I pause.

Make sure you get enough oxygen.

And decide on the state, physically,
mentally and emotionally, that

you're going to be, when you go in.

And maintain that state and make
sure everything you do contributes

to them being able to
elicit that state as well.

So if I'm perfectly
calm and composed,

I never interact, interrupt you.

I speak softly, but you'll notice
I drop my voice almost all the

time, because I want to
calm your nervous system.

Because if you nervous systems
isn't calm, the receptors in your

brain are not switched on.

So if I go, Jacquie,
this is how it's got to be.

You'll hear it, but the receptors
won't, because I've just

agitated you.

And that's caused cortisol and adrenaline to pump. And now we're

really getting... [Jacquie] Yes, that's right.

[Allan] And all of your receiving mechanisms
shut down and all it takes is

me to go, oh, how about if we were?

[Jacquie] Is it possible to have a really
successful conversation when only

one half of the conversation is
employing those techniques of being

calm and doing the breathing and

maintaining that
sort of level voice?

[Allan] I think now we're down
to pure mathematics.

One end of this cycle, we've got a
massive population of people who

are stressed, anxious, panicked,

depressed and personality disorder.

So we can go 15% are in that
category, conservatively.

I've got to accept, I may
not be successful there.

So I've got to be calm, do what
I can and get out and forgive

myself for not being
successful if I haven't been.

In the middle, there's a group of
people who are doing nothing else,

Jacquie, except habitually doing
what they've been doing for the

last 10 years, which
is rushing, being busy.

And I'm so busy, I'm always cutting

people off and I've
never got time.

And therefore it
inadvertently creeps in.

And then there's a group of people
sitting waiting, "oh my goodness,

I just want somebody to acknowledge
me and ask me a question."

And actually not jump in with
their opinion or view or criticism.

But honour and value my contribution.

Now, you know, I've been
doing this for nearly 40 years.

And there's no question in my
mind, that if we put those simple

processes in place,
right environment

decide on the state I want to be.

See, most of us lead our lives
feeling and being in reaction to what

happens to us.

Instead of me going, I'm just
going to sit here and be the

objective observer while I participate in this.

And notice what they're doing.

And when somebody gets it, inside my head I go,

seems like they're not very happy.

And we just jump in and
get caught up in other people.

And if we could just take a
breath, sit back in the chair and go,

oh, just wait, just a moment.

[Jacquie] Allan, it's been lovely meeting you.

[Allan] Thank you.

[Jacquie] You deserve a whole
conversation hour, really.

But I don't have that
luxury, unfortunately.

But if you would like to explore
more of what Allan has to say about

communication and those
skills that you can develop,

particularly in relation to family
business next week at the Frenchville

Sports Club, Allan will have a

two day family business workshop.

Register for that by going through
the FBA and the number is 4999-2823.